[Feedback & Discussion] Changes to Make

[Destination]

Admittedly, I've not given myself a lot of time to think about this. I've been busy with outfield activities, difficult collegues, transitioning to life as a commander...I kinda fucked up a lot, and now this is repayment on the promises I've made.

In no particular order, though it is a little tidy:

Plot:

-anime-RP relationship
-RP plot


Stat System (abbre. Statsys):

-stat generation
-combat calculation
-exceptions and luck rolls


Roleplay:

-RP standards not up to Tessa's standard
-Demonstration duels for the new statsys


Unlimited Neutral Field:

-???
Bunting is taking care of some portions here. I won't step on his progress by proposing my own things yet.

The original pastebin from where I wrote and write all my rewritings and planning.

[Destination]

Plot

Permalink

So Plot. Bearing in mind that the average AW fan only knows AW because of the anime (that and a season 2 hype crossing over from SAO2), the plot must make some connection of sorts.

One thing that was proposed in the past was after Silver Crow reached Level 10 and beat the game (which is itself a fanfic ending), the game then was 'reset,' becoming a new game with the same name altogether; therefore, BrainBurst2_2039.exe was created. It doesn't clearly explain if the colours claimed in the anime at least are reclaimable or blocked off.

Another possible type of plot is Alternate Universe (AU). That is to say, we pull a 'what-if' on AW right after the Dusk Taker arc. Since a lot of canon chars showed up after that arc in particular, a lot more colours are available for the picking. The roots of an AU in canon is a double-edged blade however; the Pure Colours are non-claimable, but the actions of the main cast must be resolved somehow, or shunted into some plot in particular. It will not be as simple to tie up a plot like this (and that's why ending everything with 'Disappear, I'm done playing with you' is so tempting as an ending).

Or may we've been going about this the wrong way, that the plot should be customised to our RP and not conforming our RP to the plot. This is Miale's approach, and while I don't approve of how she went about it, I'm not ruling it out just yet.

What do we want in our RP plot? Colours-wise, do we want to continue as it is, or open up the canon colours? Can we trust the new RPers to make colour claims responsibly? Should we deal with the main cast with all loose ends wrapped, or wipe out everything with a 'Game Clear!' and something to pick up the pieces?

There is a third option though: CosmosCorrupt2040. Every colour will be freely claimable again except for White. It's nearly perfect as a plotline.

What do you think?

[Destination]

Stat System

Permalink

Progress: All parts done.

Stats Generation

==> Every character will be given 25 points initially to distribute among six stats:

• Melee Prowess (Mp) - close range ability & strength of the avatar.
  
• Range Prowess (Rp) - long range ability & precision of the avatar in aiming.
  
• Indirect Prowess (Ip) - rangeless ability & its effectiveness.
  
  
• Speed (Spd)- movement speed of the avatar. Not to be confused with the controller's reaction speed.
  
• Endurance (End) - capacity for the avatar to tank damage.
  
• Potential (Pot) - the strength of one's special skill/ability or Enhanced Armament.

Removed Special Gauge; I'll keep it fixed at 0.75x | 1.50x for the time being, with an appropriate modifier. This will be covered again in part 3.

==> Every character can claim a minimum of three bonuses:

• Colour (Red/Purple/Blue/Green/Yellow/Orange/Metal): +4 points to predefined stats.
  

  Bonuses for Colours:

  
  Note that Endurance for Metal colours are conditional and hence are not awarded End bonus. The table below defines End for Metals when particular attacks are used, else there is no bonus nor penalty.
  

  Bonus for Metal Colour: Silver:

  
  
• Bodyweight (Light/Normal/Heavy): +2, 3, or 4 points to predefined stats.
  

  Bonuses for Bodyweight:

  
  Hence, Lightweights have 33 stat points after all bonuses while Heavyweights have 35.
  
  
• Offensive / Support-Type: +2 points to Potential for Support-types. Offensive-types have +2 to Endurance with an extra perma-modifier against all types of damage.

==> After claiming bonuses, characters with Potential > 11 points may choose to have an Adversity Unlockable (AdU) Skill. Example: Silver Crow's AdU skill is Aviation, and he unlocked it in his fight against Cyan Pile. Covered again in Part 3.

==> KG costs:

• Limited Activation skills: 100 / Potential = X% cost per post. Boost to Prowesses (covered in Part 3) is simply Potential.
  
  
• Active Skills costs are fixed, but they add to Potential (which is then added to the Prowess) more points depending on their cost. Assuming that the minimum cost for an Active Skill is 10%, from the table below:
  
  

  Points added to Prowess	+1 per 10%	+1 per 5%	+3 per 10%
  KG cost	10%-20%	20%-70%	70%-100%

So a 25% cost Active skill adds 3 points to Potential, a 60% cost Active skill adds 10 points, and a 100% cost skill adds the full 21 points. Good luck trying to survive that...

Here's an example of Silver Crow's stats:

Mp	5	+2	-	-	7
Rp	0	-	-	-	0
Ip	0	-	-	-	0
Spd	5	-	+2	-	7
End	5	-	-	-	5
Pot	10	-	-	+2	12 (AdU Skill)
Stats	Initial (25)	Colour: Metal (+4)	Bodyweight: Light	Type: Support	Final: 31 points

Combat Mechanics

Obviously, Mp is direct damage, Rp is ranged damage, Ip is the effectiveness of your indirect skill, and End is how much damage can you resist, albeit like defence.

In a straightforward 'A whacks/shoots B,' it will simply compare A's Mp/Rp against B's End. If they're exhanging blows, the one who has a higher Prowess being used will overall be deal more damage than he is taking.

This is a proposed damage guide:

	No	good,	man.	Parried	Cyan	Pile	is	the	stronkest	ever
Prowess - Endurance	< -3	-2	-1	0	1	2	3	4	5	>6
Damage dealt /%	much painful 2you	-5	-3	0	5	10	15	20	30	rip off limbz

Modifiers and Luck rolls

Currently, two demonstration duels have been conducted and completed; here and here. The second one hasn't been posted proper on AWRP due to time constraints.

Now, before we go onto the third demo duel, I'd like to illustrate the interaction with the players and the GM for duels.

Some definitions first:

• Action - as it says. You do something, either in response or to probe for information.
  
• Turn - one post, the duration needed to execute an action. May or may not be fixed at 10s any longer.
  
• Modifier - basically a fudge that boosts one or more stats. Their effects last for a set number of turns. Modifiers can cut the other way too, making you move slower, react slower, or even let your opponent score free Modifiers.

What *are* modifiers then? They're stuff that changes your stats mid-battle and are not part of your initial stats when you made your character. Depending on what their effects, they can make your attack go through when it should not, defend against attacks that should not be blocked, recover from a hit that should have outright K'Oed you. Or on the other hand, even the mere brandishing of a sword could make you shrivel up like a prawn and cower in fear, or forget about the bloodthirsty opponent and turn around hoping to catch the cute girl in the Gallery. Modifiers - they make fights fun.

The basic Modifier is Speed + X. This is when using an attack while you're closing in /charging / flying kick, whatever.

23:46] <@Tusjecht> Panzer initiates a charge to close in on Claymore
[23:47] <@Opt> Panzer's Melee Prowess = 10 + 4

More Speed is added if your attack is a melee attack, meaning that your attack is theoretically limited by as fast as your avatar is moving. If you want to jump from a height and kick, we'll do it. If you want to jump from a speeding bike and punch his face in, we'll do it.

Some Modifiers must be called in advance in your post. This means that both your opponent too is perfectly aware of what's going to happen and he can decide whether to follow through with his action or not. Example:

[23:51] <@Opt> Finn Claymore advances, step by step, towards Apple Panzer"
[23:52] <@Opt> Impact Strike set

Impact Strike: Based in kendo again. You predict your opponent’s action (attacking, defending a body part, whatever), but instead of taking the attack you attack before the other can. This requires a higher ranged prowess if ranged and a higher melee prowess if we’re in melee, as well as managing to predict what the opponent’ll do. Otherwise the same as above applies.

Other Modifiers: Coordinated Attack, Height, Surprised Attack, Prepared Guard, Impact Guard, Impact Strike, Precision Hit, High Tension, Overflow, Zero Fill. I'll explain them in full later; it warrants a full post of its own.

Then another kind is, shall I say, the *Surprise* Modifier. That is to say, it could be a skill, a trump card you were hiding, and it didn't matter until the time you need it. The GM can help you out with this as follows:

[23:58] <@Opt> the sheer strength behind the attack
[23:58] <@Opt> would have usually been enough to deal damage, but...
[23:58] <@Opt> Apple Panzer's Passive Skill - Armored
[23:58] <@Opt> Resistance to all physical damage: Endurance + 6
[23:59] <@Opt> As a result, the blade again bounces off harmlessly
[23:59] <@Opt> "You son of a bitch! Is there no way to kill you!"

Panzer never needed to tell his opponent that his special skill grants him a perma-boost to his Endurance because it didn't matter until that point. And that's how the fun in this RP is going to take form if all the changes go through.

To use an analogy, the base stats, skills and EAs that you make for yourself is your house. Modifiers are the furniture, the paint, the wallpaper that makes your house pretty or ugly.

[Destination]

Roleplay

Permalink

Of all the topics to address tonight, this is the most vague, and consequently the most difficult to enforce. What constitutes 'poor' RP standards? What are good ones? And what say of those that are clearly BS-level writing that is maddening to read and play?

I won't lay down rules specifically on this: I trust the players here to maintain their standards currently and I don't intend to restrict that anytime soon. The difficulty then is setting a lower limit for RP writing; what is the bare minimum level of description that can be generally accepted by anyone when duelling with or against anyone?

I'll address this again when I start demonstration duels with Bunting. Have my assurance in the meantime that I'm paying attention to this.

[Katie]

No, 25 is fine. Due to how specialized Duel Avatars are, a balanced spread doesn't do anything.

[Katie]

How am I being a smartass when every color specializes in a different thing? Balanced builds don't exist in the Accel World. Even metal colors don't have infinite diversity. I mean, Silver Crow isn't a ranged combatant, and Manganese and Colbalt Blade are probably solely melee fighters.

In other words, a balanced spread doesn't exist because you will not need to use one of the stats. To do so would requiremaking a very contrived avatar in a Metal color, hence why we haven't seen this hypothetical "jack of all trades".

[Belzera]

I agree on the 25 point mark. The Colour coding promotes specialization and you are free to balance out your stats if you wish. I mean with Green, Heavy build and Support type I can get nearly sixes across the board.

[Katie]

With a 0 in Ranged prowess, huehue.

[Belzera]

With a 0 in Ranged prowess, huehue.

Actually, 0 in endurance. Base line of stats are; 4,6,5,6,0,4 and ends at 6,6,6,6,5,6

[Katie]

I'd bepained to figure out how to use all those stats, though.

[Destination]

Hence, bunt and me are going to have demonstration duels .

[Katie]

You mean the example match will have a Duel Avatar capable of using all three prowess stats???

[Royal Duke]

No, we'll use various Duel Avatars, silly.

[Katie]

But the whole point of this conversation was me saying that it was silly to have a DA that could use all three prowess stats!

Are you saying Tusjecht lied to me?

[Destination]

I think my point was misunderstood.

While it's possible to have a theoretical avatar that has all three prowess equally strong, the Colour bonus favours only two, at most three stats. At most two Prowesses gain points.

It wouldn't make sense battle-wise. If you put points into all three, they'll end up weak against someone who kept all their points in one Prowess. A 'specialised' char would win against a 'balanced' char any day.

Note that Cyan Pile is balanced because of his Special Moves, not all of which improve on his existing specialty.

[Destination]

The bit about claiming points from RL perks have been removed. It doesn't make sense to have the avatar permanently buffed as a result of RL experience.

Can people please offer comments on the plot discussion.

[Kurosu]

Color: Pure Color is a little bit too unique so imo it should not be claimable. Not that I really care but hey there's only 8 colors. As for the canon color I don't see why not but there's so many color out there to choose from so avoiding the canon color isn't that hard. I would really like it if the members can do that. Optional though.

How to deal with canon character: I personally prefer Game Clear or AU which they didn't exist from the start.

What do I want in the plot?: No hacking nor breaking the system. But if it's the system itself then that's another story. Lots of legend, devil and maybe new god class Enemy. Two or more HUGE legions competing against each others for domination over AW and force the players to either join them or fight them.

[Destination]

Enemy-wise, canon classes are Lesser, Wild, Beast, (Devil are Beast-classes in the Hell Stage, approx 10x stronger), Legend and finally Divine, or Super-class. Super-class Enemies are what guards the Imperial Palace as well as The Fluctuating Light.

I might reduce the number of classes for the RP to simplify them.

[Eminence Puppeteer]

~Plot~

Any of the plots could work really, although I cannot for the life of me decide which I prefer- each has good and bad points.

Saying that I think the most interesting -time period- for the RP to be start would be near the beginning of Brain Burst, before the major legions are established.
This would give players a chance for have an effect on the way this version Accel World turns out-

~~~
If this Accel World started the same as the canon one, with many of the same characters; but the players had an effect on it- shit would get real interesting. For example:

Player becomes the leader of Red Legion instead of Rider > Legions continue to fight > KYH doesn't disband Nega Neb and go into hiding > Sliver Crow appears > ?

Creating this hypothetical AW would be hella interesting but perhaps kinds tricky.

~~~
Alternately this Accel World could be BB2- but the following points would need to be considered-

-Can players that were still around when the game cleared remember Brain Burst 1?
-Could they play BB2? (If so I assume they would have similar avatars)
-Could players that lost BB1 install BB2 (although obviously they wouldn't remember BB1)?

Depending on the answers to these we could end up with a scenario similar to above or something more like a total wipe plot.

This has the best potential for a mix of canon and non-canon stuff-

-Players hear stories and legends about BB1
- Characters from BB1 appear as in-game bosses
- Characters from BB1 have new characters in BB2 and do... stuff.

This would be fun and might allow the admins more creative freedom buuut might still be kinda hard.

~~~
Totally-not-canon-in-any-way-Accel-World

Pretty much what it says on the can. No canon exists here, only the results of the RP

Max creative freedom but only as interesting as GMs and players make it.


~Colours~

Kinda depends on the RP. In any case I would say pure colours can only be used by players experienced in RP and AW lore, otherwise they be NPCs. Cos y'know they're important.

In the most canon AU Id say players have priority over side-character colours (Ash, Cyan, Blood). Its not the end of the world if we have 1 or 2 duplicates.

In BB2 and t-n-c-i-a-w-a-w I'd say players can have what they want (apart from the pures).


~More plz~

One of the most enjoyable parts of AW was the effects of events in AW/RL carrying over to the other. While it may be hard to do or encourage in RP I feel I would bring the whole thing up a notch.

A few (obvious) examples:
- Rewards for RL RP such as relationships improving chemistry in battle (Silver Crow and Cyan Pile).
- RL RP gives one avatar an edge in a duel (Silver Crow vs Dusk Taker)
- A character may want to meet characters in RL for some reason (Niko meeting Haruyuki)

~ Plz stahp~

Reealllyy obvious crossovers. In Avatars, NPCs, Bosses, whatever.
This has already been discussed a little but ama say it again:
Taking inspiration from favorite characters and using existing images to show character's looks is fine (Ive done both of these things myself) but straight rip-offs ruin the 'Accel World' vibe we're here for.

Bad artists copy, good artists make something their own.

Thats a real quote.

I think thats everything for now~

[Destination]

This is how a template would look like. I just made it from scratch, so the formatting and colouring can be done later.

Real World

Name (Japanese name is preferred): FirstName LastName

Age: upper limit of 20 atm. With the plot, the lowest we can go is 16.

Gender: M/F

Appearance: Picture link, or four to five sentences max.

History: The law of duel avatar creation can be summed up by the following rule:

Trauma <=> Reaction <=> Wish <=> Duel Avatar

A concise backstory will explains the following points in detail:

• Why did your character have a Neuro Linker from birth?
  
• How was his upbringing like? Describe his Trauma and Reaction to it.
  
• What did you character Wish for in his life more than anything?
  
• How did your character receive Brain Burst?

At this point it's good enough. If you want to create a full story for your character, it's up to you and it's your responsibility.

Personality: tie this in closely with his reaction to his Trauma and the feelings after it happened.

(Additional section such as Perks / Side Notes / Tidbits may be inserted here)

Brain Burst

Name: ColourWord Verb/Noun (adding links to either or both of the words is acceptable as an explanation)

Appearance: Link a suitable picture, emphasis on the singular, and don't hide it in a spoiler tag. If no picture exists, then a description of four to five lines is acceptable.

Stats:

Mp	-	-	-	-	-
Rp	-	-	-	-	-
Ip	-	-	-	-	-
Spd	-	-	-	-	-
End	-	-	-	-	-
Pot	-	-	-	-	-
Stats	Initial (25)	Colour:	Bodyweight:	Type:	Final: X points

This table may or may not be implemented in the final template. But for presentation's sake, it does look quite neat, if I might say.

The section for Abilities and Armaments will probably be unchanged, but the description and weaknesses portions will have some extra description...

Well, wait for me to update the Example characters' sheets.

[Destination]

As most of you have read in our first demonstration duel, while me and Duke had fun slugging it out, I'm also aware that this will be quite different from the current style of combat.

There's only one reason why we used IRC: time. It was close to midnight on my end, and Bunting has exams in three days. We would have no time to spend days writing long posts and waiting to pull out our modifiers, which are the second most important aspect of combat. We're both knowledgeable in the system. There's little need for us to ask anything more or clarify things larger than minor details.

There's absolutely no reason why this can't be done on our forum. Even if there's thirty active players right now and only the two of us are GMs, all we have to do is moderate the use of modifiers and roll dice if needed for some modifiers.

I don't think the problem lies in the calculations: it's just pitting one number against the other. If players are unclear, ask the GM/Admin/Mod.

That said, I need to ask another question:

Notice how the stats for Panzer and Claymore weren't revealed at all. Neither did we know of any KMs or skills...

Until this section:

[23:58] <@Opt> the sheer strength behind the attack
[23:58] <@Opt> would have usually been enough to deal damage, but...
[23:58] <@Opt> Apple Panzer's Passive Skill - Armored
[23:58] <@Opt> Resistance to all physical damage: Endurance + 6
[23:59] <@Opt> As a result, the blade again bounces off harmlessly

That's because, as Bunt explained to me, is the same as you not knowing anything about a fighter you've never met before. You don't know if he has tricks, you don't know what's his tactics, you don't know his manners and things.

Our current system is silent about this. Everyone has probably gone to the Approved Characters' section to check on their opponent before and during a fight, already planning countermeasures and tactics.

That's fine if it's your second time fighting someone. But for first-time duellers, that's not fair at all.

Unless someone makes an avatar with an Argon Array skill, then the change I propose is this:

1. New Players make sheets in the WIP Zone
2. AT members approve the sheet and move it to the Approved Char Zone. Only Admins / GMs can view and post in this zone.
3. Disclosure of sheets and/or via PM from the GM to the players as needed during battles.

What do you think?

[Sado Ikaru]

It makes sense to me. The only problem I see with that is people who don't keep copies of their apps elsewhere. But rectifying that is simple enough.

[Destination]

http://www.accelworldrp.com/t1711-feedback-discussion-changes-to-make#18209

Part 3, explaining Modifiers, is done!

...actually. I still need to show how to call each of the modifiers and how they work...but I'll do that in another post. Not today!

[R4yleonard]

While I'm in the mood for this, might as well tell you all what's inside my mind (Since I'm bad with the stat design, I'm not going to discuss that)

1. Plot
Every choice is a double edged swords. However, my choice leans towards CosmosCorrupt. As we've known before, Kawahara Reki doesn't seems to play by the rule (we've discussed this before) and it will become a weakness in our rule (for example, when we said we used the canon rule, someone contested it by presenting a canon character like Wolfram Cerberus). Using CosmosCorrupt means we can bend some rules to make it clear while staying canon. Also, changing Mia's plot to CosmosCorrupt is easier

2.RPing Standard :
We're an RP that is open to everyone. Therefore, if you want to have a set of standards, make it a rule and enforce it. I've seen some cases of some posts not following our standards and it goes unpunished. Mods acting as enforcer of said rules will also remove the problem of metagaming and godmodding in any way possible IMO, since they have to read all the post anyway. However, this will increase the workload for mods. You can also find someone to become an enforcer, but you have to test him/her.

3. Demonstration Duels :
As written on #2, I don't see any importance of this section on the new char app. However, if all of you choose to apply it anyway, I suggest you to use the History section instead. As of now, it was only used to determine your background, and the rest of it is just checking if personality and DA goes along with it. Using it to see someone's writing skill will give importance to it


Also, I want to give one more point :

RL RP Importance :
As of now, all of us seems to focus on AW RP (not the site) while leaving the realm of RL in the dust. RL actions and skills can and will affect AW RP, which is the point of why we're having the RL realm. However, it's practically empty right now. We know that having two character meet accidentally all the time is not good. However there must be a way to make them met without doing that. One of them (which is in my mind) is school. Your classmate, your upperclassmen, your underclassmen, your friend, your best friend, your girlfriend, etc might be a Burst Linker, just like how Takumu, Haruyuki AKA Silver Crow's best friend is Cyan Pile, while his upperclassmen, KYH, is the notorious Black Lotus

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